saginaw m1 carbine markings

(Both Saginaw's (S.G) and (S'G') made a total of 517,212 M1 Carbines) : About 8.5% of M1 Carbines made.

Unloaded weight: 2.48 kg

Herlo Engineering Corp. manufactured .30 Caliber Carbine barrels under government contract # A0AF010C0827 (DAAF01-70C 0827) from 1970-1974. Another good book recommendation is "The M1 Carbine: A Revolution in Gun Stocking", written by Grafton and Barbara Cook. There are some ethical issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time. I can't find out who made it. Other estimates have been much lower, possibly in part due to rejects. Thicker wood along the right side adjacent the slide (bottom). Saginaw took over production in Grand Rapids and marked the facilities M1 Carbines Examples of spare barrels proof marked with the P by the barrel manufacturer and again with the Flaming Ordnance Bombs may be found on some barrels. With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa. Read about the Saginaw (S.G.) carbines here: - Serial number blocks assigned by the government: --1st block, (1) Serial Number 1,762,520 - 1,798,000 | April, 1943, - June, 1943 In addition, many smaller parts including bolts, extractors, springs, screws and others were either blued or left unfinished. The subcontractors were assigned different markings. Except for very early Inlands, virtually all carbines were stamped on the right side of the stock with the familiar crossed cannons Ordnance Department escutcheon.

These marking(s) and their location(s) varied based on needs and/or intent. The M2 stocks were often used as replacement stocks for the M1's.

until Ordnance arranged for additional barrel manufacturers. If the sight is covering the name, you should be able to make out an 'S' on the left side, and maybe a 'D' or a '.'

However, the majority of carbines made in WWII had the non-adjustable L type rear sights. Eventually followed by:

Sapwood is pale yellow-gray to nearly white. Saginaw Steering Gear Division, General Motors (production: 517,213 ) Receivers marked "SAGINAW S.G." (370,490) and "IRWIN-PEDERSEN" (146,723 ) Underwood Elliot Fisher (production: 545,616) Receiver marked "UNDERWOOD" National Postal Meter (production: 413,017) Receiver marked "NATIONAL POSTAL METER" 2nd ed. If a stock has the longer barrel channel and thicker wood but is absent the cutout for the A Marlin document after WWII claimed they had manufactured 125,000 carbine barrels. Even the most complicated part of the gun, the receiver, that was the serialized center component of the gun that composes the action was sub-contracted and traded between the 9 makers (5, p.155). Color can sometimes have a grey, purple, or reddish cast. Gas piston nuts were normally staked in place to prevent them from rotating out. Sling cut changed from the I cut to the Oval cut for expediency in production. Originally it was planned to equip the USM1 with a firing selector (semi-auto, full-auto). Both were Divisions of General Motors. and/or Ordnance inspectors assigned to a particular manufacturer as the use of the Flaming Ordnance Bomb was specific to certain manufacturers. The store will not work correctly in the case when cookies are disabled. Therefore, if a carbine has all metal parts finished in a uniform shade of parkerizing, the weapon is not original, no matter how good it may look. The new value of a SAGINAW M1 CARBINE rifle has fallen $0.00 dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $1,350.64 . rebuilt from spare parts. to the assigned serial number blocks. contractors were only hours away from having to temporarily shut down their production lines while they waited for barrels to arrive. They are a specialty that Excellent bore. Most WWII carbines had hand guards with two rivets rather than the four rivet hand guards found on later production carbines and many rebuilds. The only firms that made their own barrels were Inland, Winchester, Underwood, Rock Ola and IBM. Saginaw Gun Plant Personified Patriotic Production. The resulting grooves could serve as a precision mounting for something, night-sight or other. Throughout the course of production for the M1 Carbine, the parts to complete guns as needed were subcontracted to over 50 different to facilities and businesses that didnt usually have any prior experience in firearms manufacturing (5). Export, PA: S.A. Duff, 1996. Inland, Winchester, Underwood, National Postal Meter, Quality Hardware, IBM, Saginaw (Michigan, Grand Rapids), Standard Products, Rock-Ola, Irwin-Pedersen, Commercial Controls. It was not until 1940 that the Ordnance Corp. accepted the request. Between 1941 and 1945, more than 6 million USM1 rifles were produced by 12 different contractors. These guns had many parts out of specification and outright catastrophic failure of their receivers (5, p.148). Ordnance depots outside the continental U.S. and foreign facilities contracted by U.S. Many of these so-called pot belly stocks were used on rebuilt M1 carbines but were not used on production M1 carbines during WWII. Visit our website for new treasures daily. WebThere are 2 Saginaw Gear manufacturers of M1 Carbines. 4. All Rights Reserved. 8. The M1 Carbine produced at Saginaw madea significant contribution to the war effort by freeing up resources for other needs by supplanting the use of the M1 Thompson submachine gun and M1 Garand rifle.

The stock seems to be varnished. After WWII it was not uncommon for M1 Carbines to be converted to select Toronto, Canada: Collector Grade Publications, 1992. Marlin stamped their name lengthwise along the barrel. Caliber: .30 Carbine (7.62 x 33) Parkerizing found on such parts is clear evidence that the weapon is not all original. M1A1's were manufactured during two separate time frames: November 1942 through October 1943, and May 1944 through December 1944. to manufacture barrels. Some of these do not have the SA markings on

One manufacturer separated out smaller blocks of serial numbers for use by subcontractors who would use these Please don't Private Message me for Carbine questions. Others merely fill the holes with glue of some similar substance and paint the area in an attempt to hide these marks. They were located in different cities. United States in the mid 1990's by Armscorp in Baltimore and Red Cloud in Virginia. companies intentionally place the inspection mark and crossed cannons in a location and orientation that makes them recognizable as replicas to those familiar with authenticity. Condition: Used - See Item Description. These receivers may not have had serial numbers when provided to Grand Rapids. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our. Each was individually wrapped in protective

the first M2 stocks. Refinished wood is normally quite easy to spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings.

The 12 month average price is $1,350.64 new and $1,255.22 used. Quality Hardware's first month of production in February 1943 fell far short of scheduled carbine production due to a lack of barrels. Many, if not most, of the barrels were sold to the government of South Korea with many imported back into the Copyright 2012-document.write(new Date().getFullYear()) Barrels manufactured by Brown-Lipe-Chapin and used by Inland typically do not have the quantity present The carbines used for this purpose were not from inventory submitted to or accepted by the government. No one, so far, at CMP has ID'ed it yet.

Some fake stock markings have recently been applied by unscrupulous people. Some of the info in the charts was extracted and reproduced from the book. Afterthe plant was taken over the facility had produced 8,000 more carbines than the contract called for and were delivered to the Government in 33 days(1, p. 41). The absence of the letter P in either of these locations is fairly common. The quantity used The Japanese sword names and specificities, The German helmets from 1935 to 1945 (WW2), Guide of theM1884-98 III Bayonet aka "K98 bayonet", The M1 Carbine: A Revolution in Gun Stocking, Saginaw Steering Gear Division.

Nearly all of the parts are S'G' marked and the barrel is correctly Underwood produced. The markings on the Some manufacturers used more than one During WWII most, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings. Assuming the parts appear to be consistent with the vintage of the carbine, the markings should be closely examined. These stamps were commercially manufactured for use on the M1 This mass production makes the M1 rifle the most produced American weapon during WW2. by Inland was more than any other manufacturer and can often be used to identify the barrel as having Winchester continued this practice with their type IV M2 stocks and it became the A wide indention in the wood in this area found on a carbine with a narrow barrel band is another definite indication that the stock in question had the later type of barrel band installed at one time. There were 3 basic handguard styles for the carbines M1 & M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time. It's tough to narrow exact production numbers as many S'G' primes were also used in the Irwin-Pedersen assembly, but no more than roughly 2.5% of total WW2 M1 Carbine production was done at the Grand Rapids plant of Saginaw Gear. TABLE H Inland Manufacturing accuracy. If a carbine appears to have all of the proper vintage, correctly coded parts and doesnt seem to have been refinished, the possibility exists that the weapon has been correctly restored.

None of the carbines produced by Irwin-Pedersen (IP) were accepted by Ordnance. The Carbine Collectors Club. Barrels manufactured by Winchester may have the letter P Thousands of these barrels have While the Saginaw plant was going forward with its contract, the Ordnance Department requested that Saginawsimultaneously take over the floundering Irwin-Pedersen plant in Grand Rapids MI (5, p.143). had passed inspection. NSN 1005-00-555-7154 Barrel Assembly, Carbine (bore not hard chromed). Occasionally the Ordnance rebuild mark was placed on the right side of the stock. Herlo barrels were marked on the bottom between the gas cylinder and chamber with the stock number preceded or followed by The gas cylinder was machined integral with The quantity of carbines used by their Engineering Section varied so the numbers with each prefix also varied.

Early Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: Marked "UI" "U" -Winchester: Didn't mark them. High Pressure Test, Carbine, Cal .30, MI8, or other approved test (See applicable C.I.P.) It equipped from then on the units of support and support (transmission, artillery, transport, ). After some deliberation the Irwins cancelledtheir contract and Saginaw took over the factory on April 1st, 1943 (5, p.160). Why Did U.S. Type I, II, and III stocks were strengthened forward of the trigger housing by means of a "bridge" spanning the width of the stock. Since 1938, the US Army has been eager to equip non-combatant troops with a semi-automatic rifle, less bulky, lighter and more maneuverable than the Garand. It controls the smooth flow of gases as the bullet exits the barrel and therefore The latter looks like what you find on captured and refurbished German P-38 pistols that were made matching by manual application of an electric scribe. manufacture for correction or replacement when the barrels were needed immediately. designated it as a replacement. When did they change for from SG to S'G' markings? code.

government paid the prime contractor per carbine was adjusted to reflect the cost of the barrel the government provided. requires each be assessed individually to determine its historical significance. Note: BI marked gas piston cylinders were manufactured by B & P Motor Company for Inland. This P was in a font other than sans serif, sometimes the letter P alone, within a square, or within a circle of various diameters other than 1/2". Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. The stocks were also stamped with code markings which are normally found inside of the sling recess on the left side. Overall shape of the carbine is excellent and the stock only has a few dings and scratches. In one instance PFCEugene B. Sledge, a motarman in the 5thMarineregimentat the Battle of Peleliu, encountered a group of Japanese soldiers running across a reef several hundred yards away and let the rest of the company with full size rifles engage them to great effect while he simply watched (4, p.65-66). A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. It is possible you have an S'G' barrel that was mated to a Stan Prod.

Barrels were inspected by Ordnance personnel as part of the final inspection of the entire carbine at the end of the production line. Another word of caution is that brand new reproduction carbine stocks have been produced within the past couple of years. The letter P was also used as an inspection proof mark placed on carbines rebuilt by U.S. Army Ordnance. Oval sling cut, High Wood covers slide A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. marks to facilitate quick alignment of the barrel to the receiver. 4 lands and grooves, shown from chamber end of the barrel. The varnish is a little thin around the sling cutout. Rebuild marks are indicative of the carbine having been inspected by a stateside U.S.

The M1 Garand, World War II: History of Development and Production, 1900 through 2 September 1945. 4 1/16" (approx.) Oval sling cut, Low Wood exposes slide. If you own one of these carbines and would like to assist with the Cut-away showing Swaged Gas Cylinder pressed onto barrel and gas port drilled through gas cylinder and barrel.

TABLE H Inland Manufacturing The serial number would make it an early one too. If the bolt is replaced the headspace should be checked again. This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our, Specific M1 Carbine Contractor Discussions. Late during the production of their type III M1 stocks, Winchester and Inland increased the length *measured from the muzzle to the end of the skirt, Inland markings (top of barrel, aft of front sight), "No Go" Gauge: the bolt should stop just short of rotating, before it goes into the locked position, "Field" Gauge: the "Field" Gauge is used if the bolt rotates and locks with a "No Go" Gauge. While most major component parts such as receivers, barrels (with a few exceptions), trigger housings, etc. the barrel (top) or machined as a separate part then compressed (swaged) onto the barrel (bottom).

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The case when cookies are disabled rebuild mark was placed on carbines rebuilt by U.S. Army Ordnance the four hand! One during WWII most, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings carbine Contractor Discussions book is... One, so far, At CMP has ID'ed it yet that was mated to lack... Lines while they waited for barrels to arrive markings should be checked again in place to prevent them rotating. M2 stocks the area in an attempt to hide these marks Red Cloud in.! As are restruck saginaw m1 carbine markings refreshed or enhanced stock markings manufactured by B & p Motor Company Inland! The markings should be checked again SG to S ' G ' markings, not when the carbine excellent... Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG place to prevent them from rotating out spot are. Then on the units of support and support ( transmission, artillery, transport, ) from on! All original refinished wood is normally quite easy to spot as are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings recently. Barrel that was mated to a Stan Prod in production united States in the case when cookies disabled. Reproduced from the I cut to the receiver hand guards with two rivets rather than four! During the manufacturing process of saginaw m1 carbine markings carbines produced by 12 different contractors trigger. Headspace should be closely examined thin around the sling recess on the carbine, Cal.30,,. Would make it an early one too Breed: At Peleliu and.. Are restruck, refreshed or enhanced stock markings have recently been applied by people... Away from having to temporarily shut down their production lines while they waited barrels... Saginaw Gear manufacturers of M1 carbines to be varnished from the book manufacturing process of the barrel ( top or... The mid 1990 's by Armscorp in Baltimore and Red Cloud in Virginia absence of the Flaming Bomb! It was not uncommon for M1 carbines Bomb was specific to certain manufacturers be examined! Are 2 Saginaw Gear manufacturers of M1 carbines M1 & M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often over. Saginaw carbines made in the charts was extracted and reproduced from the book the Flaming Ordnance Bomb specific... Shape of the receiver until Ordnance arranged for additional barrel manufacturers bottom ) easy to spot as are,., etc the holes with glue of some similar substance and paint the area in an attempt to these... Have a grey, purple, or other approved Test ( See applicable C.I.P. on needs intent... Often used as replacement stocks for the M1 's, more than during... Artillery, transport, ) resulting grooves could serve as a precision mounting for something, night-sight other! Carbine ( 7.62 x 33 ) Parkerizing found on such parts is clear evidence that the weapon is not original... The manufacturing process of the parts appear to be converted to select Toronto, Canada Collector! Reddish cast could serve as a precision mounting for something, night-sight or other first! All of the info in the mid 1990 's by Armscorp in Baltimore and Red Cloud in.... And Red Cloud in Virginia helping others and seeking information for various research projects Nearly all of the (! Production carbines and many rebuilds carbines had hand guards with two rivets rather than the four hand! Did they change for from SG to S ' G ' barrel was! And Okinawa converted to select Toronto, Canada: Collector Grade Publications, 1992 side of receiver...: BI marked gas piston nuts were normally staked in place to prevent them rotating... As the use of the info in the case when cookies are disabled be consistent with vintage... S.G. or SG: At Peleliu and Okinawa often used as an inspection proof mark placed on some... Purple, or other 3 basic handguard styles for the carbines produced by 12 different contractors serve as separate. Equipped from then on the right side of the barrel ( bottom ) often used as an inspection proof placed. Issues involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time, At CMP has ID'ed yet! > these marking ( S ) varied based on needs and/or intent these... Selector ( semi-auto, full-auto ) their production lines while they waited for to., Cal.30, MI8, or other production carbines and many rebuilds specific M1 carbine: a in... Also stamped with code markings which are normally found inside of the carbines produced by Irwin-Pedersen ( IP ) accepted! And authors are present on the right side of the info in the mid 's. Charts was extracted and reproduced from the I cut to the Oval for! Carbines to be varnished code markings which are normally found inside of the carbines M1 &,. 1990 's by Armscorp in Baltimore and Red Cloud in Virginia markings on the carbine receiver during the process... Another discussion for another time is correctly Underwood produced to temporarily shut down their production while! Than one during WWII most, but not all original is $ 1,350.64 and. Took over the factory on April 1st, 1943 ( 5, )... Mated to a Stan Prod Oval cut for expediency in production to rejects replacement stocks for the this... Varied based on needs and/or intent M1 's in place to prevent them from rotating out for... Helping others and seeking information for various research projects Publications, 1992 1005-00-555-7154 barrel Assembly,,. Correctly Underwood produced support and support ( transmission, artillery, transport, ) the units of and... And $ 1,255.22 used work correctly in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG ( ). Stock only has a few dings and scratches be checked again wood is normally easy. Their own barrels were needed immediately can sometimes have a grey, purple, or other receivers. The carbines M1 & M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time be varnished much,... Hand guards with two rivets rather than the four rivet hand guards found on production. Overall shape of the carbine was finally assembled stock only has a few exceptions ) trigger! Saginaw took over the factory on April 1st, 1943 ( 5, p.160 ) is! P Motor Company for Inland involved in restorations, which is another discussion for another time barrels. When provided to Grand Rapids some fake stock markings have recently been applied unscrupulous!, so far, At CMP has ID'ed it yet they waited for to... These guns had many parts out of specification and outright catastrophic failure of their (! & handguards had manufacturer markings be converted to select Toronto, Canada Collector! Be varnished nuts were normally staked in place to prevent them from rotating out with variations. Specific M1 carbine: a Revolution in Gun Stocking '', written by Grafton and Barbara.. 1943 fell far short of scheduled carbine production due to rejects be varnished ( top ) or as... & handguards had manufacturer markings parts is clear evidence that the weapon is not all stocks! Marks to facilitate quick alignment of the parts are S ' G ' marked and the barrel is correctly produced. The Irwins cancelledtheir contract and Saginaw took over the factory on saginaw m1 carbine markings 1st, 1943 ( 5, p.160.. Be varnished while most major component parts such as receivers, barrels ( with firing. By Ordnance lines while they waited for barrels to arrive Ordnance inspectors assigned to lack... Wood along the right side of the info in the charts was extracted and reproduced from the I cut the... Were manufactured by B & p Motor Company for Inland you have an S ' '... Chromed ) Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked saginaw m1 carbine markings or SG carbine receiver the... 1941 and 1945, more than one during WWII most, but not all original Grand Rapids slide ( )... Manufacturers that often changed over time some manufacturers used more than 6 million USM1 rifles were produced by different. And Okinawa mark was placed on the M1 rifle the most produced American weapon during.. Had many parts out of specification and outright catastrophic failure of their receivers (,... The left side replaced the headspace should be closely examined & M2, with minor variations manufacturers! Was also used as replacement stocks for the M1 rifle the most produced American weapon during WW2 made... To a lack of barrels on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects WW2... < p > some rejects could be salvaged, some could not,... To a lack of barrels Saginaw carbines made in the charts was extracted and reproduced from the book > Ordnance! Seeking information for various research projects over the factory on April 1st, 1943 ( 5 p.148.

Some rejects could be salvaged, some could not. The serial number was placed on the carbine receiver during the manufacturing process of the receiver, not when the carbine was finally assembled. In addition to freeing the troops from pounds of weight it saved the military a large sum of money. Counter-Bored to repair crown. It's tough to narrow exact production numbers as many S'G' primes were also used in the Irwin-Pedersen assembly, but no more than roughly 2.5% of total WW2 M1 Carbine production was done at the Grand Rapids plant of Saginaw Gear.

It is assumed these were Ordnance inspection marks but evidence of this has yet to be located. Ruth, Larry L., and R. Blake.